Exquisite Cues my latest work!

[raymo147]

Originally Posted by SteveDay
....... because of there being some cue makers that say they fully make their cues when they really don't......


Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz2Cv36tVjN
- TSF - TheSnookerForum.com

Felt like an accusation to me Steve to be honest!
If all the top makers spent all day taking photos of every single stage no cues would ever get done!
Anyway I'm off to sleep as I've got work to do tomorrow!

[frazz]

Guys i've been to raymonds shop plenty of times and have witnessed first hand the time that he takes on making cues and the full process, as you can appreciate am sure he has just started out, has pumped thousands of pounds into his business and at this time wants to make cues which are to a "normal" spec so as they appeal to the widest market possible as he needs to recover some of the money invested.

He has already uploaded plenty of pics showing his shop, his tools and more recently cues being made at various stages, i dont see why anyone would need pics of the cue at various stages? I have had numerous cues from osborne in the past and never have i asked for pics during the various stages which happen during making a cue, fair enough some have offered this service but to my knowledge raymond hasn't and i think its unfair and time consuming to ask him to take pics and email them at every stage.

let him do what he does best, which is making cues and then yous can have first option, at least till he starts taking custom orders if thats the road he decides to go down

[les147]

I have asked Raymo on a number of times to make me a longer cue with a larger than standard butt diameter, but he seems to avoid it!!!! Don't no why???? Is it because he only has standard size shafts? Strange if he custom makes ALL his cues from scratch. He should be able to make ANY size and ANY combination, Jim Evans has just started out and HE can make ANY size of cue,so a bit suspicious if you ask me. You can not class yourself as a serious cue builder if you can ONLY order a standard SIZE cue from him.

[narl]

Exquisite Cues my latest work!

And so......it begins

[raymo147]

Funny that how I've just sent a cue a 59" to china with four lower Birdseye maple splices and green
Venneer! I've avoided many orders as it virtually impossible to keep everyone happy on here with specific arrows asked for
And other exotics that I'm trying to build up!
I've also avoided many many requests for the 8mm club where ppl want 8mm or less cause it ain't what I ever wanna do!

[sberry]

Keep doing what you're doing raymo, for decades there were two sizes, 57" was normal and 58" was long, 10mm was standard and 11mm was L, but like everything else today, everyone want's to think they're being clever in being different.

Most people who can play can play with something about 57.5 and 9.6-10, I often wonder if the reason you see so many JPs, TWs, TGs and all the other 'named' cues for sale is because they're ordered in funny specs and then they find out... oh, it was a back up cue, I've stopped playing, laughable excuses for people who pay top dollar to custom cue makers really.

If you can keep the specs standard and the quality high you should have no trouble shifting them and they won't be sold as soon as they arrive, leave the gimmicks to others.

[frazz]

F*** me! Give the guy a break! He hasnt asked yet for custom orders but people keep asking for them. Why not wait untill he offers this option then ask for cues that are 100inches long and 88mm butts?

[paddybhoy30]

Exquisite Cues my latest work!

I also have been to raymonds workshop and there is no way he would have invested all that money for all tools and machinery(thousands)or spent quality time studying under mr osborne to not make his own cues. He is obviously trying to recoup some of his cash for further investment and not get into trouble by making just custom cues.(a few names tried this and failed). Good luck raymo.

[choice]

raymo147
you are obviously paranoid, as no one is asking you to take pictures all the time, but then again, you do take alot of pictures just not the ones that I (we) want to see. So please put everybodies mind at rest why you will not post pictures straight away of all the shafts, not just pictures of the top end. It would be resonable to assume they are all at different stages, as you make a lot of cues.

[SouthPaw]

I for one believe Raymo would make the cues from scratch, i don't see why he'd set up a workshop to take shortcuts! I think there's a lot of suspicious minds lol

[raymo147]

I simply take pictures of the most interesting part when ppl can actually see the grain pattern
Or see what exotic woods I use and to give some ppl an idea of how it's done!

[raymo147]

Haha! Class mate! Lol lol

[SteveDay]

Felt like an accusation to me Steve to be honest!
If all the top makers spent all day taking photos of every single stage no cues would ever get done!
Anyway I'm off to sleep as I've got work to do tomorrow!

I understand that it felt like an accusation to you, that's why I said you sounded paranoid. Just because you inferred an accusation doesn't mean I intentionally implied one. You just got your back up and started being defensive about something that wasn't even suggested.

No one is asking you or any other cue maker to spend all day taking photos. It doesn't take long to take a photograph & I only asked to see what selection wood you had in stock for making me a cue. I did say I would pop around and look so no photo was actually needed. I only commented because when I looked at this thread there was the exact same request from someone else regarding photos as I had made on other one. I thought that was merely a common request by people that want cues making, it certainly seems to be regularly asked, but you took those questions as some kinda of inquisition in regards your cue making abilities.

Despite me saying that I only asked because I want a cue making you repeatedly suggest that I'm accusing you of not making cues, which doesn't even make sense because if you didn't make a cue why would I come and see you to select what wood I would like it in. It's not some outrageous request that people want to have an opinion on wood grain, etc that goes into a cue that they want custom making. No point in buying something we don't like. It's customer service, something it seems you need to work on if you intend to build your business beyond your clique of online friends on this forum.

I'm pretty sure that if I did request to choose what wood was used from the cue makers that you mentioned at the most I would get a polite declination not them jumping down my throat, saying that I'm accusing them of not making their own cues.

I didn't ask for a photograph at various stages, I only asked for one of the selection of stock available. For the short amount of time it would take to provide a photo for people to choose from it's better than making something that I don't like the look of. By asking for a cue to be made customers put faith in your choices, it may seem picky to you for people to have a certain look to their cue but it's really no different to someone choosing a shirt of a certain design, people have personal tastes. This much is clear from your photographs of the cues you have had in the past, people saying that this or that cue looks nice. That's them expressing their personal preference regarding the cosmetics of the cue, exactly the same as I (and others so it seems) wanted to do from the onset, before the cue is manufactured.

Frazz - Raymo147 hasn't said that he can't make me a non-standard cue, I want one with extra length and he said that although he currently doesn't have time to make one he will keep me on his waiting list. I said I would go see his choices of shaft when I'm in Scotland. If he isn't making anything that's not to a "normal" spec why say say I can come select my wood?
I didn't know he was just starting out, I thought from comments posted that he has sold plenty of cues to people on here!
Your comment is invalid anyway frazz, Raymo147 posted after saying he had made a longer cue for China, so one of you is incorrect

Les147 - reading your post, I'm beginning to understand why I've been targeted as some inquisitor on here. I wanted a longer cue and to my knowledge I was going to go check out what wood was available, simple bit of consumerism, but no, suddenly I get in the midst of some paranoid comments and internet back scratching. Although I was assuming Raymo147 did make his cues from scratch I'm now having doubts.

Sberry - I don't want a non-spec cue because I think I'm clever. Due to my height/reach I find it awkward using a standard size cue. "The length of a snooker cue is about the same as your shoulder height (usually 57 inches but Peradon are 58 inches). This allows you to grip the queue firmly at the cue butt and use a smooth action to strike the ball accurately and properly. If the cue is too short your playing action becomes awkward and if the cue is too long it can be difficult to maintain the correct balance when sliding the cue tip over the bridge made by your hand." (copied and pasted). It's a case of having a disadvantage with a cue that's too short for me, nothing to do with trying to be clever.

Instead of arguing about whether or not people are accusing you of not making your own cues, instead of accusing me of being some inquisitor, how about you just tell me if you can actually make the cue to the specs I asked.

It seems to me the easiest option regarding the people wanting to see what wood you have, those that are querying whether you do indeed make them from scratch or buy in and alter, is to go snap a few snapshots, would be a lot faster than messing about arguing about the matter!

I've been on enough internet forums of various kinds to know that site members back each other up blindly. If Raymo147 is bying in cues and altering, rather than building completely from scratch then he would still need a workshop wouldn't he? I'm not going to place an order with someone for a fully handmade custom cue only to be overcharged for something that is bought in, that's fraud. It seems to me from comments on here that there has been a lot of people suspect of whether he makes his own cues, if that's the case then I would have to err on the side of their opinion because one falsification overrules a truth, the only truths being assumptions that he makes his own because of some photos and the existence of a workshop. If the workshop is new I'm assuming he made his cues elsewhere beforehand? He would still need a workshop if he is just fitting splices, etc.

What I don't expect is to ask a supposed businessman to make me something and then suddenly have people jumping down my throat on an internet forum, I'm not the one that has any reputation to maintain! I'm just an ex-potential customer that seems to be getting the shaft, or rather not going to be getting it.

[prince07799]

I understand that it felt like an accusation to you, that's why I said you sounded paranoid. Just because you inferred an accusation doesn't mean I intentionally implied one. You just got your back up and started being defensive about something that wasn't even suggested.

No one is asking you or any other cue maker to spend all day taking photos. It doesn't take long to take a photograph & I only asked to see what selection wood you had in stock for making me a cue. I did say I would pop around and look so no photo was actually needed. I only commented because when I looked at this thread there was the exact same request from someone else regarding photos as I had made on other one. I thought that was merely a common request by people that want cues making, it certainly seems to be regularly asked, but you took those questions as some kinda of inquisition in regards your cue making abilities.

Despite me saying that I only asked because I want a cue making you repeatedly suggest that I'm accusing you of not making cues, which doesn't even make sense because if you didn't make a cue why would I come and see you to select what wood I would like it in. It's not some outrageous request that people want to have an opinion on wood grain, etc that goes into a cue that they want custom making. No point in buying something we don't like. It's customer service, something it seems you need to work on if you intend to build your business beyond your clique of online friends on this forum.

I'm pretty sure that if I did request to choose what wood was used from the cue makers that you mentioned at the most I would get a polite declination not them jumping down my throat, saying that I'm accusing them of not making their own cues.

I didn't ask for a photograph at various stages, I only asked for one of the selection of stock available. For the short amount of time it would take to provide a photo for people to choose from it's better than making something that I don't like the look of. By asking for a cue to be made customers put faith in your choices, it may seem picky to you for people to have a certain look to their cue but it's really no different to someone choosing a shirt of a certain design, people have personal tastes. This much is clear from your photographs of the cues you have had in the past, people saying that this or that cue looks nice. That's them expressing their personal preference regarding the cosmetics of the cue, exactly the same as I (and others so it seems) wanted to do from the onset, before the cue is manufactured.

Frazz - Raymo147 hasn't said that he can't make me a non-standard cue, I want one with extra length and he said that although he currently doesn't have time to make one he will keep me on his waiting list. I said I would go see his choices of shaft when I'm in Scotland. If he isn't making anything that's not to a "normal" spec why say say I can come select my wood?
I didn't know he was just starting out, I thought from comments posted that he has sold plenty of cues to people on here!
Your comment is invalid anyway frazz, Raymo147 posted after saying he had made a longer cue for China, so one of you is incorrect

Les147 - reading your post, I'm beginning to understand why I've been targeted as some inquisitor on here. I wanted a longer cue and to my knowledge I was going to go check out what wood was available, simple bit of consumerism, but no, suddenly I get in the midst of some paranoid comments and internet back scratching. Although I was assuming Raymo147 did make his cues from scratch I'm now having doubts.

Sberry - I don't want a non-spec cue because I think I'm clever. Due to my height/reach I find it awkward using a standard size cue. "The length of a snooker cue is about the same as your shoulder height (usually 57 inches but Peradon are 58 inches). This allows you to grip the queue firmly at the cue butt and use a smooth action to strike the ball accurately and properly. If the cue is too short your playing action becomes awkward and if the cue is too long it can be difficult to maintain the correct balance when sliding the cue tip over the bridge made by your hand." (copied and pasted). It's a case of having a disadvantage with a cue that's too short for me, nothing to do with trying to be clever.

Instead of arguing about whether or not people are accusing you of not making your own cues, instead of accusing me of being some inquisitor, how about you just tell me if you can actually make the cue to the specs I asked.

It seems to me the easiest option regarding the people wanting to see what wood you have, those that are querying whether you do indeed make them from scratch or buy in and alter, is to go snap a few snapshots, would be a lot faster than messing about arguing about the matter!

I've been on enough internet forums of various kinds to know that site members back each other up blindly. If Raymo147 is bying in cues and altering, rather than building completely from scratch then he would still need a workshop wouldn't he? I'm not going to place an order with someone for a fully handmade custom cue only to be overcharged for something that is bought in, that's fraud. It seems to me from comments on here that there has been a lot of people suspect of whether he makes his own cues, if that's the case then I would have to err on the side of their opinion because one falsification overrules a truth, the only truths being assumptions that he makes his own because of some photos and the existence of a workshop. If the workshop is new I'm assuming he made his cues elsewhere beforehand? He would still need a workshop if he is just fitting splices, etc.

What I don't expect is to ask a supposed businessman to make me something and then suddenly have people jumping down my throat on an internet forum, I'm not the one that has any reputation to maintain! I'm just an ex-potential customer that seems to be getting the shaft, or rather not going to be getting it.

Sounds fair to me

[raymo147]

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/a...B9A5A0B103.jpg
Here's a photo of my raw materials!
I'm awaiting more ebony and have plenty to get on with here!
I'm not exactly john parris so building stock takes time and a lot of money!