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body anatomy relation to cueing

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  • #16
    He's pretty fit for a 44 year old, and 44 isn't old. Feathers are practise strokes and maybe he now practises the elbow drop on his feathers, maybe he always did but it wasn't noticed. His stroke when he was a 14 year old is quite different to what it is now, but he was shorter then so his cue was longer in relation to his height.

    Last edited by vmax; 20th June 2020, 11:10 AM.
    Speak up, you've got to speak up against the madness, you've got speak your mind if you dare
    but don't try to get yourself elected, for if you do you'll have to cut your hair

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    • #17
      I agree with you but ask my kids kids and 44 is ANCIENT!
      Up the TSF!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by vmax View Post

        Any movement like that has to come from the shoulder, his feathers do sometimes include some upper arm movement but seeing as his elbow is not directly on the line of aim it looks like it's moving side to side but on the delivery stroke his upper arm only drops after the strike, but not always, which is strange, and I doubt that he knows why.
        nic barrow's elbow is pretty much on the line of aim and in the video his elbow moves side to side, yet his cue action is straight. i don't get how this is possible ,what do you think about this ?

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        • #19

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          • #20
            To me it looks straight and on line until after impact, any movement will be after the ball has gone.
            This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
            https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kflps View Post
              It only moves when the upper arm drops from the shoulder, which is after the strike, which is what I've been saying. Everyones anatomy is the same, the bones, joints, muscles and ligaments are the same in everyone, there's no such thing as double jointed, just more flexibility; so everyone has the ability to move the cue in a straight line from the elbow using the ulna joint but there are so many variables concerning other parts of the arm and hand and getting it all to work together is reliant on your natural co-ordination.
              Once you start to think about all the individual parts and what they are doing, or supposed to be doing, the natural co-ordinated movement dissapears, which is why coaches like Nick Barrow thrive, always dreaming up something new for you to think about for the next lesson at fifty quid an hour and a little gizmo for you to try at a hundred quid plus.

              You'll hit what you're looking at as long as you're on the line of aim and you leave your shoulder out of it. Getting on the line of aim is the real secret, the pros do it 90% of the time, the rest of us don't.
              Speak up, you've got to speak up against the madness, you've got speak your mind if you dare
              but don't try to get yourself elected, for if you do you'll have to cut your hair

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              • #22
                I suppose getting down onto the line of aim as you see it is one thing... But is your line of aim correct? That is something else.... just because you miss the shot, it doesn’t necessarily mean your body wasn’t on the line, as you saw it, you just didn’t have the correct line in the first place?? Just my penny worth. Obviously in practice you can set up a simple straight shot or have some other aid to show you where the line is, but during a match you don’t have that, so you have to be good enough to identify the line, which is a very intuitive, subconscious ability that comes through lots of practice.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by vmax View Post

                  It only moves when the upper arm drops from the shoulder, which is after the strike, which is what I've been saying. Everyones anatomy is the same, the bones, joints, muscles and ligaments are the same in everyone, there's no such thing as double jointed, just more flexibility; so everyone has the ability to move the cue in a straight line from the elbow using the ulna joint but there are so many variables concerning other parts of the arm and hand and getting it all to work together is reliant on your natural co-ordination.
                  Once you start to think about all the individual parts and what they are doing, or supposed to be doing, the natural co-ordinated movement dissapears, which is why coaches like Nick Barrow thrive, always dreaming up something new for you to think about for the next lesson at fifty quid an hour and a little gizmo for you to try at a hundred quid plus.

                  You'll hit what you're looking at as long as you're on the line of aim and you leave your shoulder out of it. Getting on the line of aim is the real secret, the pros do it 90% of the time, the rest of us don't.
                  i think some people's anatomy is slightly different,this is why some player's elbow drops to one side like in the video and some others like steve davis drops in a straight line.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Danger Steve View Post
                    I suppose getting down onto the line of aim as you see it is one thing... But is your line of aim correct? That is something else.... just because you miss the shot, it doesn’t necessarily mean your body wasn’t on the line, as you saw it, you just didn’t have the correct line in the first place?? Just my penny worth. Obviously in practice you can set up a simple straight shot or have some other aid to show you where the line is, but during a match you don’t have that, so you have to be good enough to identify the line, which is a very intuitive, subconscious ability that comes through lots of practice.
                    maybe this is why when i'm practicing the up and down exercise i see the cue moving a little side to side,because i have placed the cue slightly across the line and even though i'm not aiming at a ball,the subconscious knows that i'm aiming slightly offline and tries to correct that by steering the cue to get it on the correct line
                    Last edited by kflps; 30th June 2020, 11:58 PM.

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                    • #25
                      I always think the same when similar questions pop up regards technique being linked to ability/skill as a way to improve... We all have the same bodies in that everything is in the same place yes, but yet Usain Bolt can run the 100m under 10seconds no bother... No amount of me training and adjusting my technique would mean I would be able to do the same thing. The same logic in my opinion applies to everything in life. Some people are just born with skills that others aren’t and visa versa. Thats not to say we shouldn’t try to improve ourselves obviously, but know your limits and don’t get too concerned with small technical issues, especially if your doing OK the way you are??

                      If your good enough to know that it’s your alignment holding you back then I would say maybe you’ve actually just found your limit?? Judd Trump looks to have terrible alignment on the shot but yet he is No.1.... no correcting his technique will make him dramatically better, probably the opposite!

                      Pro players can experiment with their technique and then say... ah yes!! I’m playing better because I’m now doing this... But they already have the ability to see the correct angle for the shot, no matter where they position themselves. Like when player suddenly swaps and play a shot left handed (if their naturally right), there technique and alignment won’t be perfect but they still knock the pot in!
                      Last edited by Danger Steve; 30th June 2020, 03:23 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by kflps View Post

                        i think some people's anatomy is slightly different,this is why some player's elbow drops to one side like in the video and some others like steve davis drops in a straight line.
                        Steve Davis cued differently, he stopped at the chest and had a pendulum cue action. Players today cue through further and drop the elbow to make room.
                        This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
                        https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

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                        • #27
                          I think we have a habit of over complicating our game of snooker. Lots of good points on this thread, notably for me Vmax when talking about Nic Barrow and other coaches who are like driving instructors that never want to put a student through to their test, happy to milk their students for all they're worth. I've never been a fan of gimmicks, THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES, our game requires basic fundamentals and application through practice and repetition.
                          DangerSteve's Usain Bolt analogy is another good one, if you're talented you're talented but like Ronnie, Messi, Federer, talent without application will get you nowhere.

                          In response to the OP, no I don't think anatomy does make a difference, unless there is a fundamental difference in you from say a 'normal' person. Being vastly overweight is going to hinder you, having an injury will hinder you, poor eyesight will hinder you (I can vouch for that) but body composition/anatomy doesn't come into snooker as much as it would in basketball, high jump for example.

                          I will get to my point now..... In snooker there are fundamentals regardless of anatomy that must be followed, for me these important fundamentals have always been (and i'll break down my own issues on each);
                          1) Solid stance - i'm lazy with this, i'm right handed and whilst my right leg is usually perfect, i'm lazy with the left leg/foot, especially when in form and relaxed.
                          2) Walking into the shot - again as above, when i'm "on it" I neglect doing this properly, angles become easier to see when in flow but the fundamental of walking into a shot should never be neglected.
                          3) 90 degree angle of cueing arm - I know this is up for debate, i've seen that this should be slightly more than 90 degrees to assist with getting through the cueball but if my cueing arm isn't at 90 degrees on initial address everything suffers, delivery of the cue and alignment,
                          4) Keeping head still on shot and follow through - I don't care how many feathers you do, keeping your head and as much of your body still on impact is key & as key, is maintaining that through follow through.


                          If we all think less about quick fixes, gimmick products (including chalk types, cueball aiming templates etc) then we'll all improve regardless of your anatomy, work hard and get the fundamentals correct and you'll be rewarded.


                          "just tap it in"

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                          • #28
                            Coaching can help if done for the right reasons. If I went to a coach it wouldn’t be to have the coach adjust my technique to fit into the generic snooker player, I think my technique is pretty good as it is, like Tom mentioned it’s about knowing the basics, knowing your limits, knowing when you are being lazy when the game suddenly seems easy. After that is sorted the roll of a coach for me personally would be assessing my ability initially and giving me some general feedback, advice on shot selection, how I can improve my safety game, the mental game and dealing with pressure and just helping me take my game to it’s limit.

                            If the coach started to flop out his latest gadget, I’d be off!! Lol
                            Last edited by Danger Steve; 1st July 2020, 12:23 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Danger Steve View Post
                              I suppose getting down onto the line of aim as you see it is one thing... But is your line of aim correct? That is something else.... just because you miss the shot, it doesn’t necessarily mean your body wasn’t on the line, as you saw it, you just didn’t have the correct line in the first place?? Just my penny worth. Obviously in practice you can set up a simple straight shot or have some other aid to show you where the line is, but during a match you don’t have that, so you have to be good enough to identify the line, which is a very intuitive, subconscious ability that comes through lots of practice.
                              You use your eyes to look from the cue ball to the contact point on the object ball to relay information to the brain as to where the line of aim is and the brain moves the body onto the correct line. If you're not on the correct line then you haven't looked properly to give the brain the correct information or have shifted slightly when getting down.
                              You dont have to think about this, you simply have to look, remembering to look is what concentration is all about because if you forget to look then you'll find yourself down in your stance with the cue pointing across the line. No one remembers all the myriad different angles between full ball and 90 degrees from years of practise and recognises them when they crop up in a match, they look and see.

                              Now why a certain shot is missed can have a multitude of reasons, but anatomy isn't one of them unless you're born without certain bones, muscles or ligaments. I think the OP is mistaking anatomy for certain techniques that look different due to differing physiques.
                              Speak up, you've got to speak up against the madness, you've got speak your mind if you dare
                              but don't try to get yourself elected, for if you do you'll have to cut your hair

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Stephen Lee and Marco Fu two totally different builds, two great players. Your build doesn't stop you getting on line or cueing straight.
                                This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
                                https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

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