body anatomy relation to cueing

[kflps]

You should always move the cue to whatever side you want to play, don't move your bridge hand it will cause your cue to go off aim

i'm talking about aligning the cue as you are getting down before your bridge touches the table,not when you're down on the shot,i'm not sure if you mean the same thing.

[vmax]

so i was practicing the last few days and i think i found the majority of my problem.i don't place the cue accurately on the line of aim.of course,this isn't something new as i knew i was doing this before but couldn't find a way to stop it.micro-adjustments of the cue when down on the shot don't usually work for me.

so when practicing i was focusing hard on keeping my head on the line as i approach the shot and keep it there as i get down on it,thinking that my hands will follow my eyes and they will place the cue exactly on the line and for a while it worked but after a while i started breaking down and once again started placing the cue across the line on most shots causing many missed pots.

i found it imperative that i needed to stand well back behind the line,walk into the shot AND point the cue on the shot line and align it on the line of aim from the standing position as i'm getting down on the shot.i saw an improvement in my potting but still i had issues because i think at the last drop when my bridge touches the felt as i'm getting down,i'm pushing the cue slightly offline,probably because i take the cue to the body and not the other way around but i could be doing this because i instinctively know i have placed the cue slightly across the line and try to auto-correct it,who knows.

also i'm wondering,if i want to play a shot with side spin,when aligning the cue from the standing position,should i try to align the cue to the left or right part of the cue ball depending on what spin i want to use or point the cue center ball like all the other shots?

You need to look at your feet as you're getting down to check for movement because once you place your feet on the final step into the shot they mustn't move as you're getting down because this will move your body/cue arm and cue off the line of aim.
We have a pakistani chap on the forum called Sidd who posted a video that showed him turning the foot on his back leg as he got down (for comfort) and as a result he was cueing across the line, it was pointed out to him, he stopped it and made an immediate improvement.

What I have highlighted in red is wrong, you will be striking across the line if you do this, what I've highlighted in blue is correct but remember to adjust your aiming to allow for the deflection and/or swerve of the cue ball, ie: if you need to aim thicker to allow for the deflection of the cue ball then line up the shot looking at that thicker contact point on the object ball and not the actual contact the cue ball will make and look at that thicker contact point as you strike the cue ball.

[Danger Steve]

If your playing right handed, stand back from the shot, visualise what you believe is the correct potting angle, follow the line back through the white ball and visualise this as a line on the floor, you can always use some masking tape on the floor to help. You can set a particular shot up, say the blue in to middle, somewhere you know the correct line, put the tape on the floor following this line. Make sure you have roughly a cue length between the white ball and your hip, you can rest the cue up to the white and on the cushion while you do this, then make sure your right foot is stood on the masking tape in line with the shot. Pick the cue up, put a bit of chalk on the tip still keeping that right foot planted!! Do not move it! Then step forward with your left leg and downward, lowering your head onto the line of the shot all in one motion, your left foot should be shoulder width apart from your right and I like mine to be in front and slightly angled out, everyone is different, just make sure your comfortable and that right foot hasn’t moved and your right leg is straight. Get your bridge hand right, check your just behind the vertical with your right arm and your chest should be twisted to your right to allow the cue to come through in a straight line. Take the shot and remember to follow through until your hand hits your chest.

let us know if that helps!! :snooker:

[Starsky]

I think we have a habit of over complicating our game of snooker. Lots of good points on this thread, notably for me Vmax when talking about Nic Barrow and other coaches who are like driving instructors that never want to put a student through to their test, happy to milk their students for all they're worth. I've never been a fan of gimmicks, THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES, our game requires basic fundamentals and application through practice and repetition.
DangerSteve's Usain Bolt analogy is another good one, if you're talented you're talented but like Ronnie, Messi, Federer, talent without application will get you nowhere.

In response to the OP, no I don't think anatomy does make a difference, unless there is a fundamental difference in you from say a 'normal' person. Being vastly overweight is going to hinder you, having an injury will hinder you, poor eyesight will hinder you (I can vouch for that) but body composition/anatomy doesn't come into snooker as much as it would in basketball, high jump for example.

I will get to my point now..... In snooker there are fundamentals regardless of anatomy that must be followed, for me these important fundamentals have always been (and i'll break down my own issues on each);
1) Solid stance - i'm lazy with this, i'm right handed and whilst my right leg is usually perfect, i'm lazy with the left leg/foot, especially when in form and relaxed.
2) Walking into the shot - again as above, when i'm "on it" I neglect doing this properly, angles become easier to see when in flow but the fundamental of walking into a shot should never be neglected.
3) 90 degree angle of cueing arm - I know this is up for debate, i've seen that this should be slightly more than 90 degrees to assist with getting through the cueball but if my cueing arm isn't at 90 degrees on initial address everything suffers, delivery of the cue and alignment,
4) Keeping head still on shot and follow through - I don't care how many feathers you do, keeping your head and as much of your body still on impact is key & as key, is maintaining that through follow through.


If we all think less about quick fixes, gimmick products (including chalk types, cueball aiming templates etc) then we'll all improve regardless of your anatomy, work hard and get the fundamentals correct and you'll be rewarded.

I’ve only just looked through his thread and the above post says it all for me. You can tell it’s written by somebody who has reached a good standard by practice and repetition on the table .

As adult learners in any sport in my mind the one thing that holds people back from improvement is overthinking it and trying to micromanage each element. Get the fundamentals right( as posted above ) do loads of focused practice and let your sub conscious learn from mistakes.

Great post TomWalker147 !

[itsnoteasy]

It's hard to improve until you relax, tension is an absolute killer. It's hard to relax and trust your action until you improve, so you have tension which is an absolute killer.
As the name says, itsnoteasy

[kflps]

You need to look at your feet as you're getting down to check for movement because once you place your feet on the final step into the shot they mustn't move as you're getting down because this will move your body/cue arm and cue off the line of aim.
We have a pakistani chap on the forum called Sidd who posted a video that showed him turning the foot on his back leg as he got down (for comfort) and as a result he was cueing across the line, it was pointed out to him, he stopped it and made an immediate improvement.

What I have highlighted in red is wrong, you will be striking across the line if you do this, what I've highlighted in blue is correct but remember to adjust your aiming to allow for the deflection and/or swerve of the cue ball, ie: if you need to aim thicker to allow for the deflection of the cue ball then line up the shot looking at that thicker contact point on the object ball and not the actual contact the cue ball will make and look at that thicker contact point as you strike the cue ball.

when i walk into the shot i step with my back foot pointing on the line but as i'm getting down i pivot the foot a little to my right for comfort.and i think pivoting the foot changes your body position slightly,i think it turns the hips so you maybe right this could probably be the reason i'm pushing the cue slightly offline as i'm getting down.

[John Flaf]

i'm talking about aligning the cue as you are getting down before your bridge touches the table,not when you're down on the shot,i'm not sure if you mean the same thing.

Yes am talking about same thing, Imagine your lining up a shot dead center of CB you would do your pre shot routine as normal, Now if you wanted to play same shot with a bit of right hand side you would do exactly the same but your walk in would be a hairs breath to the right, so you would be cueing in a straight line with a touch of right side on CB.

Hope that makes sense.

Where's Tom he is very good at explaining things,

[vmax]

I’ve only just looked through his thread and the above post says it all for me. You can tell it’s written by somebody who has reached a good standard by practice and repetition on the table .

As adult learners in any sport in my mind the one thing that holds people back from improvement is overthinking it and trying to micromanage each element. Get the fundamentals right( as posted above ) do loads of focused practice and let your sub conscious learn from mistakes.

Great post TomWalker147 !

Thing is that some do the basic fundamentals naturally from the get go and improve very rapidly as a result. Just one little thing that's totally unnoticed can hold you back for years, but there are certain exercises and practise routines that will show up flaws if you learn from how the object ball and cue ball react.
Today of course we all have our mobile phones and can film ourselves and see the obvious flaws, but those tiny little ones that keep us off the line of aim are very hard to notice, like a small turn of the foot moving your body off line as you get down. It may only be small but if the butt of the cue is 1/4 inch off the centre of the line of aim where the tip of the cue is, then you're cueing across the line all the time and no amount of straight cueing or keeping still on the shot will put it right.
Getting the whole of the cue on the line of aim is the first fundamental and it starts with placement of the feet and keeping them there which is why I advocate standing behind the shot with your body and feet in the same position as when you're down in your stance so that there is no twist or turning as you get down. Just a step forward and your stance will automatically be comfortable and your sighting of the line of aim will be done when standing using your vision centre as you see it when you're down and looking along the cue so everything should just drop into place and stay aligned.
Once you get this right then it's all about keeping still, eye on the object ball etc etc but if you're bang on the line of aim your subconscious hand/eye knows it and all the little flaws caused by your subconscious hand/eye trying to overcome not being on the line won't happen.

[tomwalker147]

I’ve only just looked through his thread and the above post says it all for me. You can tell it’s written by somebody who has reached a good standard by practice and repetition on the table .

As adult learners in any sport in my mind the one thing that holds people back from improvement is overthinking it and trying to micromanage each element. Get the fundamentals right( as posted above ) do loads of focused practice and let your sub conscious learn from mistakes.

Great post TomWalker147 !

Thanks Starsky, nice to get a bit of positive feedback on a post!
I'm one for focusing on fundamentals and not overcomplicating things. Every professional has a different technique/style, some may even consider them to have flaws. Take Murphy's long bridge, Allen's jabby action, Selby's head movement, Trump's initial address. I guarantee though that the fundamentals I listed will be met by any pro, these are;
1) Solid stance
2) Walking into the shot
3) 90 degree angle of cueing arm
4) Keeping head still on shot and follow through

Watch Steve Barton's youtube videos, I consider myself and Steve to be similar standard players and if I took up coaching i'd be giving the same messages, KEEP IT SIMPLE.

I recently had a golf lesson and my grip was changed, i'm a decent (ish) golfer and the PGA pro told me he couldn't teach me to hit the ball straight with my new technique until I'm getting the ball up in the air consistently. I feel the same applies to kflps's questions above.... KFLPS practice my fundamentals until you've nailed them, then send me a PM or even post a video on this thread of you playing some shots and i'll help you without overcomplicating it. I'm not bothered about you being a 1/4 inch out on the line of aim at this point, until you've got the fundamentals sorted on a consistent basis you can't worry about the intricate details.

[tomwalker147]

Yes am talking about same thing, Imagine your lining up a shot dead center of CB you would do your pre shot routine as normal, Now if you wanted to play same shot with a bit of right hand side you would do exactly the same but your walk in would be a hairs breath to the right, so you would be cueing in a straight line with a touch of right side on CB.

Hope that makes sense.

Where's Tom he is very good at explaining things,

I think you did a good enough job John (it's a nightmare explaining side).
A further point on this though, where to aim when playing with side will vary for every person depending on their cue, technique and power chosen for the specific shot. Anybody wishing to learn about side needs to practice practice practice.

[trains]

just regarding potting with side , i learnt this from cliff thorburns snooker skills book , it explains it really clearly , you can get it off amazon for a few quid . .

[Starsky]

Thanks Starsky, nice to get a bit of positive feedback on a post!
I'm one for focusing on fundamentals and not overcomplicating things. Every professional has a different technique/style, some may even consider them to have flaws. Take Murphy's long bridge, Allen's jabby action, Selby's head movement, Trump's initial address. I guarantee though that the fundamentals I listed will be met by any pro, these are;
1) Solid stance
2) Walking into the shot
3) 90 degree angle of cueing arm
4) Keeping head still on shot and follow through

Watch Steve Barton's youtube videos, I consider myself and Steve to be similar standard players and if I took up coaching i'd be giving the same messages, KEEP IT SIMPLE.

I recently had a golf lesson and my grip was changed, i'm a decent (ish) golfer and the PGA pro told me he couldn't teach me to hit the ball straight with my new technique until I'm getting the ball up in the air consistently. I feel the same applies to kflps's questions above.... KFLPS practice my fundamentals until you've nailed them, then send me a PM or even post a video on this thread of you playing some shots and i'll help you without overcomplicating it. I'm not bothered about you being a 1/4 inch out on the line of aim at this point, until you've got the fundamentals sorted on a consistent basis you can't worry about the intricate details.

No problem Tom

I couldn’t agree more. I played as a junior in a group of kids who all went onto turn pro. They all had different stances , cue actions etc but the fundamentals were all correct. Of course none of us knew that then as all we did was spend hours on the table perfecting our game through repetition .

I’d say most players who come onto the forum would be happy enough just to get to a good club/league level. To do that all you need to do is concentrate on the fundamentals and practice them .
If you want to speed up the learning curve as a adult beginner go and get a lesson so that you can see what it is you need to do to nail the basics.

[vmax]

If you want to speed up the learning curve as a adult beginner go and get a lesson so that you can see what it is you need to do to nail the basics.

Stay well away from Nic Barrow though, like a chiropractor there'll always be another appointment

[vmax]

just regarding potting with side , i learnt this from cliff thorburns snooker skills book , it explains it really clearly , you can get it off amazon for a few quid . .

I learned from Ray Reardons Classic Snooker, he explains very well the difference when the cue ball is spinning along, across, against and with the lay of the nap, I tried it and it works 100%. Of course everyones cue is different and deflection of the cue ball therefore varies a tad, but if there's a nap on the cloth that lies over from baulk to top cushion then Ray's explanation is perfect.
Napless cloths are very different and those pool videos on youtube won't help your snooker at all, those blokes just don't know napped cloths at all, steer clear of them.

[trains]

I learned from Ray Reardons Classic Snooker, he explains very well the difference when the cue ball is spinning along, across, against and with the lay of the nap, I tried it and it works 100%. Of course everyones cue is different and deflection of the cue ball therefore varies a tad, but if there's a nap on the cloth that lies over from baulk to top cushion then Ray's explanation is perfect.
Napless cloths are very different and those pool videos on youtube won't help your snooker at all, those blokes just don't know napped cloths at all, steer clear of them.

Interesting but iirc thorburn doesn’t mention anything on this about the cloth nap he just mentions if you want to impart left hand side on the white you aim slightly to the right of the pocket you’re looking at and vice versa with right hand side , the extremities of side you impart and how far from the pocket you aim being judgement calls .

shortly after reading it I remember guiding an old timer who wanted to know through this in the 90’s , running right hand side potting the black into the black pocket , told him where to hit the white and where to aim , upon successful completion of both parts he said “ ahh it works ! “

probably dead now bless him :snooker: