Come on newbies get posting

[arnold jones]

To take the scenario a little further, what if after potting Red the Blue is nominated but missed, and the cue ball not only strikes a red but also pots it, thus denying opponent possible 8 points.
Penalty point awarded: 5 for missing Blue, or 7 for playing at Reds in successive strokes?

[DeanH]

RULES qUESTION
Snooker Rules, Section 3, Rule 11 (d) (iii) suggests 7 penalty points awarded for playing at Reds in successive strokes.
In that case, if after potting a red the Blue is nominated but missed, and the cue ball strikes a red ball, would the penalty be 5 points (for missing Blue) or 7 points for playing at Reds in successive strokes?

This rule is applied when NO colour is nominated and hence the referee does not know what penalty points to apply when the consecutive Red is hit; hence 7 penalty points.
In your scenario the Blue is NOMINATED so the referee knows what the player is intending and when a foul occurs the penalty will be 5 penalty points.

To take the scenario a little further, what if after potting Red the Blue is nominated but missed, and the cue ball not only strikes a red but also pots it, thus denying opponent possible 8 points.

Penalty point awarded: 5 for missing Blue, or 7 for playing at Reds in successive strokes?

Again, in your 2nd scenario the Blue is NOMINATED so the referee knows what the player is intending and when a foul occurs the penalty will be 5 penalty points.
Reds are never spotted as they do not have a spot to use
Now depending on the shot itself and the situation on the frame, a Miss could be called as well (as ball-on not hit), so the option of replacing all the balls could be applied.

[throwawayttyl102]

Received my new cue. Very responsive, not as stiff as I assumed it would be but plays like a beaut.
Can changing the tip to harder make it feel a little stiffer? Normal Elk on it. I have some MW super tips just hoping they don't make it feel more springy.
Current stiffness is not that big of a deal for me. I don't know if the less springy feel is because my last cue was about 1oz heavier. The cue is playing awesome I just hope the feel thing is due to the newness and getting accustomed because I am banging some good game with it.

[Cue crafty]

Received my new cue. Very responsive, not as stiff as I assumed it would be but plays like a beaut.
Can changing the tip to harder make it feel a little stiffer? Normal Elk on it. I have some MW super tips just hoping they don't make it feel more springy.
Current stiffness is not that big of a deal for me. I don't know if the less springy feel is because my last cue was about 1oz heavier. The cue is playing awesome I just hope the feel thing is due to the newness and getting accustomed because I am banging some good game with it.

Takes a while to adjust to the different throw , but if you like it that's a good sign it's a keeper. The MW tip might not be a good match for it , maybe try a harder tip.

[arnold jones]

Thank you for your responce relating to Rule 11 (d) (iii).
After potting a red a stricker will often not verbally nominate as it is obvious which colour is next aimed for.
In this instance if stricker after potting Red aims towards Blue misses the blue and the white strikes a Red.
Is the stricker penalised 7 points?

[DeanH]

Thank you for your responce relating to Rule 11 (d) (iii).
After potting a red a stricker will often not verbally nominate as it is obvious which colour is next aimed for.
In this instance if stricker after potting Red aims towards Blue misses the blue and the white strikes a Red.
Is the stricker penalised 7 points?

The Indication of nominated ball does NOT have to ALWAYS be verbal but can by pointing with hand/cue or by purely the alignment of the cue 😊
As you say "aims towards Blue" this is indicating the nomination of Blue and the Referee (or if no referee the non-striker acting as Referee) is satisfied that Blue is Ball-On - the penalty would be 5 points.
If the Referee is in any doubt they will ask the striker to "declare" and then the striker MUST verbally nominate the ball.
In you scenario above, I would call foul and 5 penalty points.
Sec 2.12 Nominated Ball
(a) A nominated ball is the object ball which the striker indicates to the satisfaction of the referee, or declares (states verbally), they undertake to hit with the first impact of the cue ball.
(b) If requested by the referee, the striker must declare which ball they are on.

The 7 penalty points is when it is NOT clear as to nomination of a colour; and also is for when requested the striker does not declare.
Sec 3.11 Penalty Points (d)(v) fails to declare which ball they are on when requested to do so by the referee; or…

[throwawayttyl102]

Takes a while to adjust to the different throw , but if you like it that's a good sign it's a keeper. The MW tip might not be a good match for it , maybe try a harder tip.

Noted mate.

[arnold jones]

• Thanks for your comments.
• Correct me if I am wrong, it seems to me therefore that:
• after potting red BLUE is nominated but missed, cue ball then strikes red, penalty of 5 points (not 7 points) are awarded
• after potting red Blue is nominated but missed, cue ball then strikes Black, penalty of 7 points (not 5 points) are awarded
• interesting

[DeanH]

• Thanks for your comments.
• Correct me if I am wrong, it seems to me therefore that:
• after potting red BLUE is nominated but missed, cue ball then strikes red, penalty of 5 points (not 7 points) are awarded
• after potting red Blue is nominated but missed, cue ball then strikes Black, penalty of 7 points (not 5 points) are awarded
• interesting

the above is correct

point 3 - correct; as described in previous posts - as long as nomination of the Blue (in your scenarios) is clear
point 4 - correct; in this scenario, penalty points are:
Sec 3.11(b) Value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher, ...
point 5 - I certainly hope so

[arnold jones]

Thanks for your reply.
One more question to ask relating to
Foul and a Miss Rule 14 (a) (i)
Can a Miss be called when the points difference is equal to the points available on the table, eg, 27 points with only the coloured balls yellow to black remaining?
I remember a time when a Miss would be called because frame could be won with respotted black.

[DeanH]

Thanks for your reply.
One more question to ask relating to
Foul and a Miss Rule 14 (a) (i)
Can a Miss be called when the points difference is equal to the points available on the table, eg, 27 points with only the coloured balls yellow to black remaining?
I remember a time when a Miss would be called because frame could be won with respotted black.

Sec 3.14(a) The striker shall, to the best of their ability, endeavour to hit the ball on or a ball that could be on after a Red, or a free ball nominated as a Red, has been potted. If the referee considers the Rule infringed, they shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless:
(i) any player required penalty points before, or as a result of, the stroke being played and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional;

Scenario 1 - 27 on the table and difference in scores and THEN foul and penalty points added so difference if greater than those on the table, then NO F&M called and a player now needs penalty points as a results of ...

Scenario 2 - 27 on table and difference in scores AFTER a foul and penalty points applied, then NO F&M called as a player required penalty points before...


There was a rewrite of the F&M wording for the Sep 2019 issue where the words "before or after the stroke, the points available on the table are equal to the points difference excluding the value of the re-spotted black; " were removed and this was also when a F&M would not be called.

[arnold jones]

I assume that penalty points are required if the points difference are greater than the points available.
I assume that penalty points are NOT required if the points difference are less than the points available.
What is the situatuon when the points difference are equal to the points available?

[DeanH]

I assume that penalty points are required if the points difference are greater than the points available.
I assume that penalty points are NOT required if the points difference are less than the points available.
What is the situatuon when the points difference are equal to the points available?

Then if the one player gets the points available to have equal scores, then a tie-break is played (commonly known as a re-spot Black).

as per previous post #26 above, in continuance with regards F&M:
...
Scenario 3 - points available and difference in score are equal AND NO penalty points were required before or as a result of penalty points added, F&M is called.

The rule is now regardless of scores (hence the old words were removed), it is whether penalty points were or are required before or after the foul.

[arnold jones]

Thank you so much for your advice.
As someone who played local league snooker for over 45 years and refereed many matches including cup finals over that period I have made the effort to keep up with the latest rules of the game.
Some of the latest revised rules I still find confusing, and I shall seek advice on these in future.
Thank you again.

[arnold jones]

How does one become a member?