relationship between line of aim and dominant eye

[Terry Davidson]

All that's happening here is you are making life more complicated for the players on here who feel thay have difficulty aiming. The problem is non-existant and the solution is very simple. Set up any pot on the table you want (I suggest start with an easy one like black off the spot or even blue to the middle). Put the ball on spot and cueball anywhere you want. Now take the yellow and set it up on the blue or black so it's in a combination or plant to the widest part of the pocket you can see.

Now go to the cueball (leaving the yellow where it is) and line up the cue to deliver the cueball full-ball on the yellow ball. For the player on here who thinks he is lined up incorrectly on the pot he should do this at various places around the table by placing the yellow behind the object ball and then getting down on the pot whilst leaving the yellow in place.

No matter where you place the cueball there is only one potting angle on the OB and there is only one line for the cue (unless using side which requires compensation on the aiming/sighting). This is not rocket science and there are no secrets. This is a method called 'ghost ball' and is the way we first determine our aiming point and anything beyond this is utter crap. If the yellow is removed while the problem player stays on the line of aim and he tries to pot the ball and misses then he's delivered the cue crooked. If he makes the pot then he delivered the cue straight but remember the OB should go in at the widest part of the pocket, so if you're using the blue into the middle and you hit the jaw then you've delivered crooked and need to work on that because pots that are longer than the blue to middle you'll miss.

So, line up the yellow and then down into the address position for full-ball yellow and see if anything changes and if it does to your eye DO NOT CHANGE YOUR LINE OF AIM and have the yellow removed and try the pot and see what happens remembering THERE IS ONLY ONE CORRECT POTTING ANGLE.

[GasMonkey]

Terry sorry you've utterly missed the point. Lots of players struggle to visualise having got down or get down off line. Just because that method works for you does not mean other people process the information in the same way. I coach on a day to day basis in work and 100 people will learn the same thing 100 different ways. With something as individual as sighting, stance and cue delivery and all the variables associated with it e.g. Age, flexibility, eyesight degradation, spatial awareness, etc. You cannot say "just do this" and people will get it. Some people need methods to check their own competence e.g. The cue on the table fixed in place and dropping down. Others just need for it to "feel right".

Once people get to higher levels of competence they need methods to identify this minor imperfections and address them, therefore, making those marginal gains. When players can self diagnose and address deficiencies they are empowered to keep improving. The sign of bad coach who imprisons students is one who says "just do this" and keeps the player ignorant of self diagnosis. I see it all the time when coaching coaches and those not confident in their credibility won't explain the "why" to their students.

[Byrom]

All that's happening here is you are making life more complicated for the players on here who feel thay have difficulty aiming. The problem is non-existant and the solution is very simple. Set up any pot on the table you want (I suggest start with an easy one like black off the spot or even blue to the middle). Put the ball on spot and cueball anywhere you want. Now take the yellow and set it up on the blue or black so it's in a combination or plant to the widest part of the pocket you can see.

Now go to the cueball (leaving the yellow where it is) and line up the cue to deliver the cueball full-ball on the yellow ball. For the player on here who thinks he is lined up incorrectly on the pot he should do this at various places around the table by placing the yellow behind the object ball and then getting down on the pot whilst leaving the yellow in place.

No matter where you place the cueball there is only one potting angle on the OB and there is only one line for the cue (unless using side which requires compensation on the aiming/sighting). This is not rocket science and there are no secrets. This is a method called 'ghost ball' and is the way we first determine our aiming point and anything beyond this is utter crap. If the yellow is removed while the problem player stays on the line of aim and he tries to pot the ball and misses then he's delivered the cue crooked. If he makes the pot then he delivered the cue straight but remember the OB should go in at the widest part of the pocket, so if you're using the blue into the middle and you hit the jaw then you've delivered crooked and need to work on that because pots that are longer than the blue to middle you'll miss.

So, line up the yellow and then down into the address position for full-ball yellow and see if anything changes and if it does to your eye DO NOT CHANGE YOUR LINE OF AIM and have the yellow removed and try the pot and see what happens remembering THERE IS ONLY ONE CORRECT POTTING ANGLE.

You speak in absolutes - there are a few ways to visualise thee pot - Ghost ball is not for everyone to visualise the potting angle Terry and its a slightly flawed theory for some people because of the reasons I have explained - we all imagine the hit this is true but neither GB or BOB another thing you yourself used to recommend suits every player - your Nik explains this on the video - - if you watch it. If what you do works it works. I was just giving my suggestion on what I do backed up by another coach I have heard say the same thing. My focus is more on the line of the shot - I'm not saying its the only way.

[Byrom]

Yeah exactly. Say your bridge V is 10" on most shots from the cueball. Place 2 bits of chalk at 5" from the ferrule supporting the shaft. Use the cushion or something else to support the butt. I use a spiderpodium flexible cradle thing as it's my phone holder in the car. Set the cue up perfectly and the drop down imagining you are holding the cue.

Thanks yep good idea - never thought of this. I will try it out - sounds like a good way to self diagnose. could you not just use the spider or bridge to rest the cue inline? might be a bit more sturdy than chalk I'm thinking.

[GasMonkey]

Thanks yep good idea - never thought of this. I will try it out - sounds like a good way to self diagnose. could you not just use the spider or bridge to rest the cue inline? might be a bit more sturdy than chalk I'm thinking.

Use whatever you want. The nice thing about the chalk is it doesn't get in the way - you can actually carry on and hit the shot just by cueing it higher than the chalk. I like it as a bad habit of mine is to get offline behind the ball with my body yet put my head in line. I can instantly feel it when I simulate getting down with the imaginary cue.

I'd love to listen to the top pros talk about their self diagnosis routines they use in practice. I expect alignment from stood up to address to delivery is a constant work in progress for the majorityof them.

[Byrom]

I used to move a lot on deep screw shots - so someone told me to place blocks of chalk stacked close each side of the cue and I tried the deep screw without knocking over the chalk and doing a major twitches. This helps you become more controlled in delivery and more ware of the movement. I think there is a device you can buy that does something similar.

[vmax4steve]

I think cueing straight is easy enough, once the cue is bang on the line of aim your hand will follow your eye if you'e looking at the target on the strike.
It's getting the cue on the line that's the biggest problem, and for those who say it looks wrong when down in the stance it's because their brain knows the cue isn't on the line.
Clever thing this human brain, you don't have to keep telling it what you want to do and pretending there are imaginary lines and balls on the table because it already knows you're playing snooker and it has a subconscious hand/eye department to help you.
All you need to do is look to see the line of aim and after that you need to work out the position of your feet to get the butt of the cue on the same line as the tip.

The tip is easy as it's in your field of vision and you can put it to the centre of the cue ball, the butt though is out of sight and you need to work out beforehand where your feet need to be in order to get the butt on the line.

The best way is to place the tip of the cue at the centre of the yellow along the baulk line, lay the cue down on the cushion with the butt bang on the line and stand in the right place to keep it on the line.

This is your stance and if it all looks wrong when doing this then throw your cue away and take up darts.

[Terry Davidson]

Gasmonkey:

The OP's problem was he thinks he was getting down off-line but also said when he was standing behind the shot he felt he was online. There is only one spot on the waist of the object ball that will pot the OB. What I was giving him is a method he can use to discover where and why he feels he goes off-line. He said he sees a different picture out of each eye which is absolutely normal as only one eye, not necessarily the dominant eye, which will see the correct potting angle and that is the eye he uses for sighting which I call the PREFERRED EYE.

He also said when he plays with the chin up 5" or so off the cue he feels he is still online. This ghost ball method using the yellow should tell him if he has really gone off-line and my feeling is that if he has gone off-line it can only be that he has come down that last 5" off-line but that isn't really his problem. He can try closing the eye which looks to be off-line and check and see if he is still full ball on the yellow and if he isn't then he has moved somehow and his problem now is to sort out why he moved. There is another method using the black where you can place another ball directly behind the yellow ball on the cushion and then remove the yellow ball and see where he's lined up when the chin is on the cue.

Ghost ball is the initial way everyone who picks up a cue aims, either that or BOB but visualizing a ghost ball or BOB is difficult for a lot of players however I can't think of any other method which can be used for aiming. Visualizing a pipe or train tracks can work too but it's still the same thing in the end. Try taking a person who has never played a cue sport, set up a simple shot and ask them to place the cueball where they want to hit the OB to pot the ball. Invariably they will place it in the plant position (set position for purists).

The problems happen when they either get down crooked or try looking with the wrong (non-preferred) eye. The simple test the OP has already tried, i.e. - blue into the middle pocket straight on with the cue over the centre of the leather of the middle pocket under their bodies. This is a good check and even better if you do it with long blues with the cue over the near-centre of the yellow or green pocket.

What I'm saying is, to all these people who think they can help the OP, is to keep everything as uncomplicated as possible because complications mean too much thinking about what they're doing and not enough thinking about the actual end result, the pot. Judging the potting angle of any shot is built up through proper technique (whatever the player chooses) and practice. Sighting should be unconscious and should be a minor part once they have some experience..

The OP has got it into his head that one of his eyes (perhaps his dominant eye although he didn't say) is 'seeing' an incorrect angle when in reality there is only ONE correct angle and the eye that's seeing that angle he feels is correct is the one he should be using for sighting. Aiming on the other hand uses both eyes because you are a distance behind and above the cueball and OB.

I stand behind my statement that there's only one way to sight and there is only one spot where you are on the correct line of aim. Only side spin changes that.

[Catch 22]

I think cueing straight is easy enough, once the cue is bang on the line of aim your hand will follow your eye if you'e looking at the target on the strike.
It's getting the cue on the line that's the biggest problem, and for those who say it looks wrong when down in the stance it's because their brain knows the cue isn't on the line.
Clever thing this human brain, you don't have to keep telling it what you want to do and pretending there are imaginary lines and balls on the table because it already knows you're playing snooker and it has a subconscious hand/eye department to help you.
All you need to do is look to see the line of aim and after that you need to work out the position of your feet to get the butt of the cue on the same line as the tip.

The tip is easy as it's in your field of vision and you can put it to the centre of the cue ball, the butt though is out of sight and you need to work out beforehand where your feet need to be in order to get the butt on the line.

The best way is to place the tip of the cue at the centre of the yellow along the baulk line, lay the cue down on the cushion with the butt bang on the line and stand in the right place to keep it on the line.

This is your stance and if it all looks wrong when doing this then throw your cue away and take up darts.

Unfortunately not for me . My problem is on the delivery . When I've completed the backswing and transfer eyes to OB and deliver the cue , sometimes my hand closes too fast and I nip the cue ....or it's too slow closing ....etc .

Nights when I've got the timing on this right , I play really well . When this is off its horrible .

[Terry Davidson]

Unfortunately not for me . My problem is on the delivery . When I've completed the backswing and transfer eyes to OB and deliver the cue , sometimes my hand closes too fast and I nip the cue ....or it's too slow closing ....etc .

Nights when I've got the timing on this right , I play really well . When this is off its horrible .

Check and see is you're cueing right-to-left on those bad nights. Do not use shooting the spots but rather use the dead-in black with deep screw to see if there's any side on the CB when it hits the cushion. Usually tightening the grip too soon is the cause. Sometimes upper body movement too.

[Terry Davidson]

I have to disagree with vmax as I think delivering the cue consistenly straight is by far the toughest thing to do. I still haven't got it as I still put left-hand side on power screw shots although the loop bridge seems to help but locking down my open bridge doesn't help at all.

[itsnoteasy]

Getting everything on line and staying there all the way down is hard, didn't Chris Small say it was ninety percent of the shot. As Terry says I think everyone can see it, we could all either set the plant up or point to the part we need to hit to send the ball to the pocket, so we are left with lining everything up and delivering the cue, and I think the first part is really hard and takes a lot of practice and the second part of it is really hard and takes a lot of practice,so basically snooker is really hard and takes a lot of practice.

[GasMonkey]

Terry I suspect in person you are totally different and very capable of identifying a player's coaching needs. On here your manner says "I'm right, you're wrong, my method is the only way". The OP states that they feel online until they fully drop into the cue, chin down. By giving them the perfectly setup cue they can get down knowing the cue is correctly aligned and sight from there. If this feels wrong then they're issue is sighting and not alignment, if it feels right they're moving offline on the way down. Either way is a SIMPLE tool to check. Diagnosing their issue is a process of elimination and checking against fundamental constants.

If they're seeing it wrong when down on a correctly aligned cue it may mean they need to change the way they see the shot. For me, I can't sight the waist of the ball consistently. The method I use involves lines similar to a Barry Stark method. This is because I am different to you! It would appear Byrom's brain is wired similarly to mine and we're both different to you. That doesn't make us right and you wrong. It makes us all right in a different way.

The OP will take what they want from the discussion and discard what they don't feel is relevant. They may think what I say is complete nonsense or it might give them their epiphany moment. Either way it's a discussion and nobody has a right to dictate in absolutes. If the game was as simple as see angle, hit angle it'd be bloody boring!

[Byrom]

Terry I suspect in person you are totally different and very capable of identifying a player's coaching needs. On here your manner says "I'm right, you're wrong, my method is the only way". The OP states that they feel online until they fully drop into the cue, chin down. By giving them the perfectly setup cue they can get down knowing the cue is correctly aligned and sight from there. If this feels wrong then they're issue is sighting and not alignment, if it feels right they're moving offline on the way down. Either way is a SIMPLE tool to check. Diagnosing their issue is a process of elimination and checking against fundamental constants.

If they're seeing it wrong when down on a correctly aligned cue it may mean they need to change the way they see the shot. For me, I can't sight the waist of the ball consistently. The method I use involves lines similar to a Barry Stark method. This is because I am different to you! It would appear Byrom's brain is wired similarly to mine and we're both different to you. That doesn't make us right and you wrong. It makes us all right in a different way.

The OP will take what they want from the discussion and discard what they don't feel is relevant. They may think what I say is complete nonsense or it might give them their epiphany moment. Either way it's a discussion and nobody has a right to dictate in absolutes. If the game was as simple as see angle, hit angle it'd be bloody boring!

I think you are absolutely right Also I am being totally original in saying this but snooker is really hard and takes a lot of practice.

[vmax4steve]

Unfortunately not for me . My problem is on the delivery . When I've completed the backswing and transfer eyes to OB and deliver the cue , sometimes my hand closes too fast and I nip the cue ....or it's too slow closing ....etc .

Nights when I've got the timing on this right , I play really well . When this is off its horrible .

When everything is all on line, the brain knows it and the timing is good, when not the brain throws everything into confusion trying to get the cue onto the correct line on the delivery stroke.
It will attempt to move the body, the head, the cue arm, the fingers holding the cue, all will have a go at steering the cue to where you're looking from the wrong line of aim.