is this a free ball, i got told no .....

[jrc750]

Too much gobbledegook on here now, let's all agree it's a free ball

[Dave_marsy]

That's not correct. There are loads of occasions you are not able to hit both extremes and it's not a free ball, you can not count the flat of the cushion as a blocking point, remember you can't be snookered by a cushion.

yes I agree cushions don't count ...the green is the blocking ball

[itsnoteasy]

You have got to be able to hit all of the red the green ball is the obstruction ...so ITS A FREE BALL

I agree it's a free ball, but the point they are making is the knuckle is stopping you hitting as much of the red as possible, if the green wasn't there ,and because this is closer to the cue ball, it's classed as the first blocker so no free ball( I hope that's what's being argued) I am saying I don't think the knuckle is the first blocker so it is a free ball.

[Dave_marsy]

Too much gobbledegook on here now, let's all agree it's a free ball

Correct lol

[itsnoteasy]

Correct lol

Also correct

[blahblah01]

I agree it's a free ball, but the point they are making is the knuckle is stopping you hitting as much of the red as possible, if the green wasn't there ,and because this is closer to the cue ball, it's classed as the first blocker so no free ball( I hope that's what's being argued) I am saying I don't think the knuckle is the first blocker so it is a free ball.

Yep, but no.

the line from the left edge of the CB to the right edge of the Red goes through the curve. So the CB (on that line) will hit the curve and go into the middle of the table, unlike a straight cushion, where the CB will hit the Red.

I don't think that those arguing that it is not a Free Ball agree with it, but that is the strict application of the rule...

[Dave_marsy]

Yep, but no.

the line from the left edge of the CB to the right edge of the Red goes through the curve. So the CB (on that line) will hit the curve and go into the middle of the table, unlike a straight cushion, where the CB will hit the Red.

I don't think that those arguing that it is not a Free Ball agree with it, but that is the strict application of the rule...

Only balls can cause an obstruction to award a free ball ...so the green is limiting you

[Londonlad147]

Yep, but no.

the line from the left edge of the CB to the right edge of the Red goes through the curve. So the CB (on that line) will hit the curve and go into the middle of the table, unlike a straight cushion, where the CB will hit the Red.

I don't think that those arguing that it is not a Free Ball agree with it, but that is the strict application of the rule...

Indeed. As I've said, before this question arose I'd have awarded a free ball all day long.

[Londonlad147]

Only balls can cause an obstruction to award a free ball ...so the green is limiting you

No, that is incorrect.

The curved part of a pocket is considered to be an obstruction, and if that is nearer to the cue ball than an obstructing ball, then no free ball can be given.

2.17:

(e) The cue-ball cannot be snookered by a cushion. If the curved face of a
cushion obstructs the cue-ball and is closer to the cue-ball than any
obstructing ball not on, the cue-ball is not snookered.

[Londonlad147]

Yep.

For those thinking it isn't a Free Ball, as the Rule is written... (well my understanding)

You have a Free Ball: you play to pot the Black and miss. Being cunning, you play the pot to leave the last red snookered behind the Pink, which works.

However the Black has rolled into a similar line (ie between the CB and Red): is it a Freeball?

Answer: it depends which side of the Pink the Black is. If it CB side then it is a Free Ball, if it is Red side then it isn't - as the FIRST obstruction is the only relevant one ie the Pink.

In the photo above, the curve of the cushion is the first obstruction, so the Green is irrelevant. However, the curve is an integral part of the table, which is not relevant in Free Balls.

Spot on! Nice that someone else gets it.

[Londonlad147]

yes I agree cushions don't count ...the green is the blocking ball

But the curved part of cushions do count. The curve is nearer than the green, so NO free ball.

[Dave_marsy]

No, that is incorrect.

The curved part of a pocket is considered to be an obstruction, and if that is nearer to the cue ball than an obstructing ball, then no free ball can be given.

2.17:

(e) The cue-ball cannot be snookered by a cushion. If the curved face of a
cushion obstructs the cue-ball and is closer to the cue-ball than any
obstructing ball not on, the cue-ball is not snookered.

The curve doesn't matter green is stopping you hitting the red ....it dosent matter if you can pot the red or not
No matter what it's a Free Ball

[blahblah01]

For those that aren't getting this:

The Rule is designed for the CB being in the jaws of the pocket from a Foul, however, it is badly worded so that it applies in the photo.

The photo SHOULD be a Free Ball, but the Rule is badly worded, and few, if any Ref's would actually enforce it due to the bad wording. IF I was a Ref, which I am not, I would explain it to both players and expect them to agree to a Free Ball, but if one didn't, then I would have to go with the player wanting the Free Ball.....

[blahblah01]

The curve doesn't matter green is stopping you hitting the red ....it dose the matter if you can pot the red or not
No matter what it's a Free Ball

It does, due to the bad wording - I'll explain on Friday......

[Londonlad147]

I agree it's a free ball, but the point they are making is the knuckle is stopping you hitting as much of the red as possible, if the green wasn't there ,and because this is closer to the cue ball, it's classed as the first blocker so no free ball( I hope that's what's being argued) I am saying I don't think the knuckle is the first blocker so it is a free ball.

You need to consider that the point where you need to hit the red is NOT where you can hit the red and cushion simultaneously, but where you would hit the finest edge of the red if the straight part of the cushion wasn't there. They are two different paths, and the curved part of the cushion is in the way of hitting the finest edge.